May 20 2008
Supporter Fronts Swami $10M Bail For Permission to Leave Country
This morning, one of our readers posted an update article related to an article we posted a few weeks ago. We have received an overwhelming flurry of comments, and we thank everybody for their thoughts and opinions.
Below, we have pasted an article that was published on May 20, 2008 by Austin American Statesman, as well as posted by one of our blog readers:
Re: AMERICAN AMERICAN STATESMAN article on the front page
Tuesday, May 20, 2008HAYS COUNTY
Arrested Hindu guru allowed to leave country
Follower puts up $10 million to guarantee Saraswati’s return.
By Eric DexheimerPrakashanand Saraswati, the Hindu guru arrested and charged three weeks ago with groping two underage girls, is being permitted to leave the country after an Austin follower agreed to put up $10 million as a guarantee that the swami would return. Legal experts called the arrangement — and the size of it — unusual.
The money was promised by Peter Spiegel, an entrepreneur who made his fortune primarily in direct marketing, according to published media reports posted on his Web site. Spiegel also is listed as a managing member, director and treasurer of JKP, Barsana Dham, the corporate name of the temple founded by Saraswati, according to records filed with the secretary of state’s office. Spiegel’s companion, Katie Williams, is also a director and managing member of the temple, the records show.
The amount of money, and the seeming ease with which the swami’s followers were able to arrange it, speak to the apparent wealth of the organization. Barsana Dham owns more than 200 acres on FM 1826, on the way from Austin to Driftwood. Its dramatic, 35,000-square-foot temple, opened in 1995, rises above the surrounding trees and attracts hundreds of worshippers every Sunday.
The organization was able to quickly raise $1 million for Saraswati’s initial bond. In the wake of his arrest, the temple has hired at least two public relations firms, in addition to legal assistance, to counter the reports.
The 79-year-old Saraswati, known by his followers as Swami Ji, retrieved his passport late last week, according to Hays County court records. A spokesman for Barsana Dham said the guru intends to visit India soon to oversee several hospital-building projects sponsored by his organization.
District Attorney Sherri Tibbe said her office argued against permitting the guru to leave the country. “We oppose anybody leaving the country who’s out on a felony bond,” she said.
Saraswati was indicted on 20 counts of indecency with two children between 1993 and 1996. He was arrested April 24 at Washington Dulles International Airport after he arrived on a flight from Europe, where he had been receiving medical treatment.
He was extradited to Hays County two days later and released on $1 million bond. According to other provisions of release, Saraswati was prohibited from entering Barsana Dham property at any time because, Tibbe said, that is where the offenses allegedly occurred.
In recent weeks, Saraswati has traveled several places within the country. But he needed to attend to religious matters in India and so petitioned the court to leave the country, a spokesman said.
State District Court Judge Charles Ramsay, who approved the deal, was out of town and unavailable for comment, according to an assistant.
But Judge Jon Wisser, a semi-retired state District Court judge from Travis County, said, “I’ve never in my 35 years heard of anyone putting up that kind of money. It’s unprecedented.”
Spiegel was traveling Monday and unavailable for an interview. But through a spokesman, he said, “I have known Shree Swamiji for 24 years, and the accusations against him are false. Anyone who knows Swamiji well would have done the same thing.”
Spiegel declined to describe his businesses. The Web site for one of his companies refers to him as a “highly successful serial entrepreneur.” Several companies with addresses at Barsana Dham, including CX Technologies, Tetra Investments and the Microcrisp Co., show Spiegel as an officer or director, according to state records.
State records show that he has held official positions within Barsana Dham since at least 2002.
According to a self-written biography posted on the Web site of one of his companies, Spiegel attended high school in Long Island, N.Y., went to college in Florida and studied acupuncture and meditation in Europe in the mid-1970s. One of his first businesses was selling “natural foods candy.”
Acquaintances said that Spiegel splits his time between Barsana Dham and Los Angeles.
Much of Spiegel’s fortune appears to have come from products sold through infomercials produced by a company called Kent and Spiegel Direct Inc., based in Culver City, Calif. Partner Marsha Kent has a listed address at Barsana Dham.
One of the Kent and Spiegel products was called the Sobakawa pillow, a posture-correct pillow filled with buckwheat husks and aimed at soothing the aches and pains of aging baby boomers.
Another product was the Abflex, which promised to help users lose 5 inches and 10 pounds in only three minutes a day.
That claim was challenged in 1997 by the Federal Trade Commission, which charged Spiegel and his company with deceptive advertising. The company ultimately agreed to stop making the claims.
Spiegel’s most active current company appears to be the Sylmark Group, a 10-year-old concern that sells products including Miracle Blade knives and Walkfit shoes through direct marketing and infomercials. It claims several hundred million dollars in sales.
Again, we ask that you provide your comments and thoughts on this. As stated in the article, this is an unprecedented amount of money, which was considered quite unusual.
Where do you stand?
***Update***
Read update article: Barsana Dham Update - Guru Denied request to Live on Barsana Dham
***AMAZING***
It’s amazing how much money is flowing through this organization! I thought $1 million was a lot for bail, but now they have come up with $10 million! Unbelievable.
Dear editor,
I was shocked by reading the biased and inaccurate article in today’s Austin Statesman about Swami Prakashanand Saraswati. The article did not accurately covered facts of the hearing. I was personally there at the last hearing. Swamiji has given the his life for humanity and serve the community. Swamiji is a leader of a major religion worldwide that is followed by about a billion people worldwide. The hearing was to enable him to continue his charitable work. The exception was made to return Swamiji’s passport to he can continue his charitable hospitals that provide free medicare to everyone specially to all the poor people in villages who don’t even earn a dollar per day and have no nearby medical facility. Leaders from both USA and Indian government presented the statements attesting to Swamij’s stature in world’s religious community and his selfless service to mankind. Without even getting to facts, and by false accusations by someone and without even being proven guilty by court how can such a good reputed newspaper write such remarks about a great personality as Shree Swamiji?
I sincerely hope you will try to understand the feeling of your readers and try to correct such mistake by not writing such inflammatory article without even finding the facts.
williamr wrote:
To the Editor of the Austin Statesman regarding the Tuesdays article:
Arrested Hindu guru allowed to leave country
By Eric Dexheimer
I happened to be at the hearing on May 14th and I find that your article very flawed and biased.
This was a very simple and uncomplicated procedure. Two people were called to testify. A well respected and unbiased professor of religious studies from a local university and Mr. Spiegel who is member of the organization. In both cases only positive points were made in regards to Prakashanand Saraswati’s responsibilities here in the US and in India. Specifically his on going charitable work building hospitals in very rural areas providing free healthcare and presiding over important Hindu religious celebrations.
There were also ten letters presented to the judge from both US and high ranking Indian government officials and very prominent religious leaders attesting to Swamiji’s stature in religious community and his selfless service to humanity for over 30 years
It is very unfortunate that this article was full of assumptions and neglected to report what was actually said at the hearing. It seems that your reporter was either not at the hearing and if he was he reported what he wanted people to read and not all of the facts. A very unbalanced article.
This unfortunately seems to be the norm in today’s media .
Re: Williams: You cant pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. Oh no! Not from the one who has lived there and KNOWS from personal experience and close associations these two comments above come from those involved with the damage control and at least one is an administrator of Barsana Dham JKP. They are all in serious trouble there. This tactic has all along been part of the PR image makeover campaign: to distract the public from the real issue in this case: child abuse.
It doesnt matter if the Austin Statesman did not quote all the positive statements said in that hearing. I KNOW from first hand experience that no amount of religious and charity work has stopped this guru from abusing both women and children. The newspaper stuck to the abuse which is what this case is about. But of course, BD would rather you all know about the petition to get the passport back to return to India to build hospitals. This case is not about the hospitals, its about the abusive damage he has done in his spare time behind closed doors (not only limited to these two girls who grew up at Barsana Dham).
As an abused insider and victim myself having lived at Barsana Dham since the beginning over 16 years, I was recently forced to leave due to very difficult and painful abusive circumstances related to this particular case two years before it became public. Its a well known inside fact that the guru, and some preachers, administrators, and managers are involved in vicious attacks on the already abused victims in their efforts to shut them up, which has further damaged them.
Its very difficult for me to sit back and watch all the lies, denials, twisting, spinning and coverup that goes on while they try to distract, change the focus and publicly denounce the victims even more. It just shows how corrupt and abusive this organization truly is. One day it will all be revealed.
To:Austin statesmanon AND someone who was present at the hearingon
Just an observation:
Is it false that $10 million bail had to be posted ??
If true, why such a high unprecented bail was set by the Judge even after presenting tons of favorable letters and testimonies ??
In USA, it is hard to swallow that the Judges and Law Enorcement Agencies will blindly believe the baseless and false charges filed (as you claim) and take extreme actions as in this case.
I was abused when I was little and have taken care of my situation and am very content with my life at this point. One suggestion to you bdjkpvictims advocate is to stop changing your identity and writing the same thing by signing yourself off as different person. Even though you may think that you are speaking for the other people under different names and stories but it still brings a doubt in people’s mind of your motive. Just wait for the court to do its work and don’t get caught up in the drama. I am surprised that your lawyer has not adviced to do so. There is justice at the end of the day.
Abuse survivor:
I agree with you. There is no point for bdjkpvictimsadvocates to keep repeating.
They should believe in the Justice System here in USA and rather use their energy in preparing their case/s. Looks like they will have an uphill battle against people with serious means and resources.
To the previous writer, here is what happened courtsy another writer
For those who do not know- ask the court to find out what happened and you would know that the judge asked this individual if he could put everything that he owned down to ensure the return of Swamig for the case and his answer was -yes- and he is worth $10 mil. so it was put in the bail paper as all this guy was worth. If he was worth 5 million, the judge would have ordered the same thing. As usual the facts are being distorted here to sensationalise the whole thing. So he was granted permission by the judge to go overseas. Now you can distrort the facts and turn them in to stories that would have people talking is what media is known for doing.
The rational ones can think for themselves to know what is going on over here.
Half knowledge of things can destroy everything.
For the judge to allow him to go back to India speaks a volume about what must have gone on in the court.
My idea is to let the system work as it worked for me and got me through it without me having to resort to cheap way of doing it.
Hats off to the people who are ready to do anything for their Divine Master.
Even after offering our lives countless times, we can’t repay the amount of love and grace that the Great Divine Master, Shri Swamiji has offered us, we are indebted !!!!!!!!!
I am glad people are commenting about bdjkpvictims advocates repeated writing of the same things under different names. bdjkpvictims advocates, it may harm your defence if it is found out that you are doing this. You do know that you could possibly be traced, don’t you? Victims don’t normally behave in this way.
As for your statement that the article just focuses on child abuse charges, this is incorrect. The article also focuses on Swami Prakashanand Saraswati’s return to India, but fails to explain the context of why, or how such circumstances arose. Also, half the article focuses on the the abflex company, and tries (intentionally) to paint the company badly, and therefore tarnish the image of Saraswati.
I am not sure if this allegation is true or not, and do not find myself in a position to judge without all the facts!!
However, history tells us whenever we shut our brain, our intelligence and surrender ourselves to any mere mortal, we are open to abuse. There are cases of those who claim to have the authority over your salvation, in several religions, committing abuse of one sort or other. Unfortunately, our relentless desire to reach quick salvation from sins, leads us to the doors of those who have masked themselves to be the god sent.
If there is a lesson to be learned from this incident and public outcry, it is one of “make your innerself strong” read the Vedas yourself. It will teach you that God does not need to send his agents to help you get closer to God. Use your resources to assist those in need, and you can do it directly without going through various organizations.
May there be Peace, Peace, Peace (Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti OM)
bdjkpvictimsadvocates is only one person. This person has more than one aspect 1) a victim 2) a victims advocate, 3) an ex insider.
There is more than one victim’s advocate on this blog. Ask the editor! Of course you want us to go away and none of us speak out like this for the victim’s cause. We are fighting a multi-headed monster’s lies and coverup with bare hands–(just our words) against BD who has two expensive PR firms and lawyers. Too bad if we/I am repetitive here and there. Likewise, I hear nothing but repetitive denial about false allegations from multiple devotees saying the same thing from or for the ONE Barsana Dham. I’ve lived there–I know how it works. Barsana Dham’s motive is to conceal and intimidate and keep a squeeky clean public image while being extremely cruel to some of the girl victims (for many years). They are dependant on getting new recruits, keeping the money coming in, and finding more women and children to be molested.
Why should my motive be any surprise to you? But I wont embarrass you by revealing that here. There’s a time and place for everything and you will find out in due course through the proper channels. Don’t worry NK, my help you are suggesting is very well taken care of. Our motive is clearly to not let BD supporters get away with public lies and attempting to intimidate the victims to lower their self esteem or courage through newspapers, TV news report statements, nor let you taint and poison the public opinion against these two victims. They deserve to be supported even if I/we have to repeat ourselves to debunk your own combined repetitive denials, repetitive public attacks in newspapers and TV against the victims, repetitive changing and distracting the subject from the crime, repetitive posting about all the good work the guru does, and going on and on about the hospital buildings, while repetitively and cleverly omitting the current race to complete two more new lavish temples that cost many millions more than the hospitals.
The victims (who were once called Swamiji’s “grandchildren” by him), sure get a lot of crap from those who worship a loving form of God. What does that say for your organization? Not one person from there has come forward to them help. Our motive is simple: to debunk those vicious attacks by BD supporters sating these victims are making false allegations with ulterior motives. Our motive is to debunk all Barsana Dham’s twisting, spinning, controlling, lies and denials that could only be known if you’ve been an insider. What you are accusing me of doing is what Barsana Dham does themselves. They are (one) organization who tells multiple devotees to write positive comments in blogs. Then they managed to get all the negative statements in an Austin Statesman blog removed. When the editor was notified that support for the victims was removed, and only support remained for a suspected serial pedophile and predator written by multiple identities from Barsana Dham commanding their newspaper blog, the editor pulled the entire blog from the article, and then wrote an article today on the front page which brought the editor criticism from Barsana Dham’s facilitators who attended the hearing. It is easy to see what is going on.
Abuse Survivor, you are obviously a supporter of Swami Prakashanand Sarawati and of the abuse at Barsana Dham and once again you try to shut up those in the blogs who speak for these victims. You speak half truths yourself. You are talking to someone who has the whole truth, and you dont want it to be said here. You could very well be one of those facilitators who has used multiple identities. Yes, you would like a lawyer to tell me to stay off the blogs wouldnt you??? Another damage control tactic, another potshot to intimidate a victim yet once again by saying “dont get caught up in the drama.” (That’s a control tactic too). Too late, that happened long ago.
bdjkpvictimsadvocates, are you admitting that you are one of the accusers involved in the present case?
Don’t worry BDJKP Victims Advocate — as we well know Barsana’s guru teaches devotees to “keep quiet, don’t think, or don’t speak anything negative about the guru.” They are so indoctrinated in this tenent of their faith that they become angry and lash out of any people who are speaking a truth they can’t handle. But just because they don’t like the truth — and rant and rave against it — doesn’t change one single thing.
- Sj was arrested for a sexual felony by 5 branches of the law of the land
- He paid $1 million cash to get out of jail and was able to travel about the country
- He got his passport returned based on an agreement of ONE person to pay $10 million if he doesn’t appear at trial (or if he steps on Barsana Dham)
Now this guru-man will go back to India to finish purchasing ship loads of pink marble from Italy, piles of emerald pearl from China, million dollar machinery to etch the marble, railroads to trasport the marble slabs and much more much. Then they’ll throw a few bucks into the smallish healthcare facilities — to keep the smokescreen up in front of publics’ eyes.
It’s funny that they are now trying to say that he’s basically the male version of the Mother Theresa. Funny, I’ve know him for years and never saw him give a care about most people’s medical health — except his own (for which he spares no expense, including regular trips to relax in the salt mine spas in Poland).
The only other question many are asking is — will he actually return to trial or just let the man pay the $10 million?
Janisha, you sound like some one with a huge grudge against these people. What exactly did happen? It looks like there is more to your anger then the charges. You seem like an angry child who did not get the candy and so is going to shatter things by throwing stones wherever you can. Calm down and relax or else you will loose it if you have not already. You don’t fit the cap of someone who would stay quiet for 12 years to report groping or inappropriate touching. You would probably get even right then. Did you get thrown out of there and are getting back at them.
Only if all abused or hurt people had your guts or vengefulness.
AS- What you call a grudge I call exposure of the truth — something few in BD appear to have a handle on. If you mean I’ll be shattering the falsehoods and lies that a certain corrupt placce has been operating behind for far too long, then yes, that is my hope.
It sounds to me like you might be peeved at having BDham’s secrets revealed to the world.
I certainly have no interest in sharing my story here in this venue with you, but I’ll get back to you when I’m ready, so send me your email address.
Who is this anonymous person asking if I am one of the accusers in this case and why do you ask?
Abuse survivor
“”"”YOUR QUOTE to me:
To the previous writer, here is what happened courtsy another writer
For those who do not know- ask the court to find out what happened and you would know that the judge asked this individual if he could put everything that he owned down to ensure the return of Swamig for the case and his answer was -yes- and he is worth $10 mil. so it was put in the bail paper as all this guy was worth. If he was worth 5 million, the judge would have ordered the same thing. As usual the facts are being distorted here to sensationalise the whole thing. So he was granted permission by the judge to go overseas. Now you can distrort the facts and turn them in to stories that would have people talking is what media is known for doing.
The rational ones can think for themselves to know what is going on over here.
Half knowledge of things can destroy everything.
For the judge to allow him to go back to India speaks a volume about what must have gone on in the court.
My idea is to let the system work as it worked for me and got me through it without me having to resort to cheap way of doing it.
UNQUOTE”"”"”
Doesn’t look like your are an Abuse Survivor and whose side you are. The fact that he was allowed to go back to India is being described as discharge of all charges against him and a big victory of BD.
If you were really a victim and to all other concerned:
Has it occured to you that there was a major judicial investigation, charging and arrests and then unprecedented bail for this person.
In earlier blog and here also, I have been saying and repeating again:
Keep your mind open, for anything can happen and just not ridicule the persons who have filed the charges.
Janisha and bdjkpvictimsadvocates & such others:
A suggestion - You will be better off fighting in the court than trying to convince people in blind faith.
Hey “Abuse Survivor” — so does Barsana Dham regularly “throw people out of there”?
(You said above to me: Did you get thrown out of there and are getting back at them.) So is that place in the habit of kicking people out? That’s an interesting new insight on this ashram that I hadn’t heard about. But it sounds like you know something. Please tell us.
According to jkp “it’s all one person posting all the non-pro-jkp comments.”
Blah, blah, blah! How MANY times do we have to hear that one? You people in JKP used the same argument last summer (2007) when your main guru was arrested for rape in Trinidad. There were thousands of comments on dozens of blogs: Yet according to your theory of reality - it was all one person. How convenient for you?
Wow if two people came in front of you and complained about your organization what would you say? This is really one person who is a witch and can appear as two people.
Wake Up! There are hundreds, maybe thousands, who either know your secrets, suspect your secrets, or are in doubt about your real motives. I know it must pain you to face this fact, but it’s just that — A FACT.
Abuse survivor, Like NK sniffs a rat, so do I, as I said before. YOU are a BD imposter and your comments are of the typical “controller” and also a facillitator of abuse of victims as you are known to be. You are a very cunning person to pose as “abuse survivor” on this blog to attack the victims and the advocates and attempt to intimidate them to leave the blogs so no more of your dirty laundry gets aired. It only shows you guys up to no end what lengths of corruptness and deception you will go to. The ugly multi-headed monster is growing bigger, more ugly and with more victim-bad-mouthing heads everyday.
Yes, you too, and other BD supporters can be traced to using multple identities. Wouldnt that be interesting? At least if I am traced THAT will be embarrassing to you. I will be telling the whole truth as I am no longer caught in your controlling web and forced to keep my mouth shut, or suffer more abuse as has happened at BD, (as you probably know right?) I was forced to get out because of what I and the other victims experienced there at BD which was so awfully abusive, painful, controlling, downright wrong for a so-called loving spiritual organization, and also against the law. Period. No matter what good the swamiji has done, he has ALSO BROKEN THE LAW, and that’s what this is all about. Just like all those good working Cardinals and Bishops and other Indian gurus–they broke the law, eventually got caught after decades, and paid for the crime.
You all say Prakashanand is inocent until proven guilty, but look at you biased, vile angry people. How cruel and duplicious to not afford the victims the same honor! Its all there in newspapers and on TV for the whole world to see the entire JKP organization through crafty and mean PR spokespeople (some of them facilitators to these crimes), who know they are lying through their teeth, while they publicly judge, brand and condemn the victims for life as making false accusations–meaning they are liars, defaming a great religious leader, and they are suspect for having ulterior motives and going after money. A civil case awards money. This is a criminal case which does not award punitive damages. See how stupid, biased and nasty BD people are to these victims before they get heard in trial??? if you dont want your guru to be judged before the trial, then DONT JUDGE THE VICTIMS EITHER AS GUILTY OF LYING WITH SUSPECT MOTIVES BEFORE TRIAL!!! Also let them have their day in court to be heard before you en mass spit your venom , hate and vengeance all over them (but that is nothing new for you guys now is it?) You are the kind of people like eating your own young. Disgusting and shame on your whole organization for this cultish behavior and mentality.
These blogs are really showing how corrupt you are all willing to be to protect your suspected pedophile. No US or Indian Ambassador can tell the jusge or me this good-working leader is not capable of putting his hands on girls and women where they dont belong. And how the hell would those big important GUYS know? Do they spend 24/7 in his bedroom behind his closed doors as girls? The judge at that hearing and the prosecutors saw right through that one, and they raised the bail surety because of what they found was an even bigger risk he poses in asking for his passport back. If he jumps bail, your main financial supporter of the JKP mission will lose his $10 million he could have given the mission, and your swamiji will be a hunted fugitive if he doesnt follow ALL the agreed and signed stipulations and conditions of the bond
All your blah, blah, blah crap is not intimidating me as you woiuld like, but it sure as heck is showing you guys up for what you truly are. Why, what, and who is covering up and facillitating will all be coming out. A lot of you people speaking out against the victims are known to have your own personal guilt and rotten reasons to coverup, and one day the spotlight will be turned around on you all for your corruptness and cruelty. Just keep on digging yourselves a bigger hole. Even what you all write in these blogs could be used in court one day to show how far reaching the corruptness goes and who is doing it, and why.
For me, bring on the witness stand and the lie detector machine right NOW for both sides. How come none of you at BD where these crimes took place have not stepped up to agree to take a lie detector test whenever I bring it up. Because you and I know, you will fail miserably. Be careful what you say because I for one, can give a full disclosure in court on anything you lie about or twist. If you keep on throwing stones yourselves and any of those you have thus far thrown, they will ALL boomerang back and hit you right between the eyes one day. Remember your lessons about cause and effect. What you are causing now, or have caused in the blogs and elsewhere in the past, you will suffer the effects. God Krishn knows the truth.
TO ALL THOSE who think these victims might be after money:
QUOTE from bdjkpvictimsadvocates:
A civil case awards money. This is a criminal case which does not award punitive damages.
If this is the case, think again, what other false motives these victims may have.
May be BD reps can throw some light on it.
I just saw the following very interesting comment posted on another blog. I thought it needed to be said here too:
From “Voice of America News”: Tom Burton, General Counsel for Houston-based Justice for Children, a non-profit group that is not involved in the case, is among those questioning the judge’s decision. “It is disturbing, from a public policy perspective, that an accused child molester could simply carry around a war chest and pay his way out of trouble and that appears to be what the judge allowed to happen,” he said.
Supporters of the Indian cleric say the charges against him are spurious and that he will return so that he can be exonerated in court. But Tom Burton says if the accused is in fact a child molester the judge may have put CHILDREN IN INDIA and elsewhere at risk by letting him leave. “What assurances do we have that children all around the world are safe? Until we resolve the allegations here in Texas how do we know?,” he said.
who knows what is the plan here, trying to convince people of the abuse and then go after the civil case or money. And if there is a counter case it will be so easy for the lawyer to plead insanity which is seen by the continous time spent by their client at useless blog arguments with so much planned hatred instead of doing the right thing and preparing for the court case and lawfull handling of the case. NK you can not judge the case adequately through the blogs.
Hi NK, look what I found, our friend Janisha has been very busy. Who does this seeking truth sound like?
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/05/20/0520swamiji.html
Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz … sound familiar Himani? That’s what you sound like. Like a fly in the ointment, trying to get out, but stuck for eternity with the same tape whirling round and round in your brain.
Take pity on yourself and get some help, please.
Like you I’m reading more than one blog and saw that comment and thought it was so on target for the readers of this blog. Jeesh lady, give it a rest.
Quote-
Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz … sound familiar —–? That’s what you sound like. Like a fly in the ointment, trying to get out, but stuck for eternity with the same tape whirling round and round in your brain.
Unquote–
That is what you sound like again and again and again and again BUT we recognize you now.. You give yourself some rest as you have been busyyyy buzzzzzing the sameeee songgggggggg tooooooooooo looooooooong .
To:Nature of the case -
First of all, I am neither the Judge or the Jury here. Even outside of the blogs, I am not qualified to judge the people or the legal cases.
In this forum, people are presenting their views. I just learned that it is a criminal case with no monetary benefits so I asked about possible alternative motives.
Still, as a neutral person, I think -
A person is not Guilty until proven.
On the same token, the lawsuit should also not be treated as frevelous until such decision.
(In my experience - unless there is prima facie case, based on evidences and/or witnesses, the Judicial System in U.S. would not go after anyone and take severe actions. But that does not mean that the defendant is guilty automatically.)
Therefore, anyone who is not direct party to the alleged crime::: should keep an open mind even while supporting either party and should not attack anyone personally on either side.
Hi Himani, good to hear from you after long pause.
It is the nature of this case that both sides are and will be busy in making their points. Unfortunately, the outcome of this case, whichever way it goes, will be painful for many people.
Nature of the case on 21 May 2008 at 2:20 pm
You, like others seem to think that bdjkpvictimsadvocates and Janisha are the same person. Why dont you bury that lie forever by contacting the editor of this blog and confirm that we are two different people?
You said: “And if there is a counter case it will be so easy for the lawyer to plead insanity which is seen by the continous time spent by their client at useless blog arguments with so much planned hatred instead of doing the right thing and preparing for the court case and lawfull handling of the case.”
The blog arguments may be useless to you because they dont support your coverup campaign do they? Further the comments from dozens of quite nasty people (on a continuous basis) towards these victims has already served several purposes on mutliple levels. Your desperatation to conceal crimes is creating a public psychological backdrop in the blogs that indicates the nature of BD & JKP, as a fraction of an indication how you treated abused victims. Its becomming very transparent. One thing that stands out is just how unrelentingly cruel you all are, and how much hatred eminates from this one organization in your BD (planned) PR attacks using multiple identities at an insane rate, especially in the Austin Statesman where I have never blogged by the way. Why dont all you fools go and ask that editor there too if bdjkpvictimsadvocates is any of those bloggers there.
Oh, and by the way, you mentioned “insanity”. THAT is the nature of BD isnt it to put “insanity” labels on devotees whom confront them about coverup crimes? Shall we ask the ex president to confirm that? You keep shooting yourselves in the foot all the time. YOU are also using the blogs, newspaper articles, TV news reporters to plead your side of the case. Why dont YOU do the right thing yourselves and all pull your heads and bullhorns in and stop making false statements in and to the press and prepare swamiji’s case lawfully, instead of using all the media channels way beyond anything we have used in support of the victims. Why dont you get your face off the TV cameras, quit the lying and let all your big time lawyers prepare the case instead of arguing here and making innacurate statements to reporters who quote you? Why dont you follow your own counsel? But you better believe anything we say in support of the victims which results in a provocative and “negative” reaction from you is very useful for us.
Previous writer- your immaturity/ignorance/grudge just is bubbling out of every thing you write which you seem to be so proud of but you know what by saying that everyone who is not agreeing with you is a BD person proves your state of understanding and paranoia.
bdjkapadvocate- I dont need to ask statesman whether you blogged there as bdjkp..because the website automatically logs you as seeker of truth in that blog. You thought you could pull that over me.
NK- I hope you get the light to see that there is good out there for you inspite of what happened to you in past but please do not put all in the same category and know that you will find whatever it is and when it is time for you and my best to you.
Anyway,
Retiring for good from this forum
Himani, if you are going to make up lies about Seeker of Truth being logged in as bdjkp victimsadvocates why dont you copy and paste that screen you saw right here to back yourself up. Also get yourself a written confirmation from the AAS editor and paste that here too. Guess what, I know you will never come up with them. And yes, you do need to take the extra step of calling the editor if you dont want someone else to find out for you how deceptive you are.
I’m back; but I won’t stay long, because now Swamiji and Kripalu Maharaj are headed inexhorably down that steep cliff reserved for villains of their ilk.
‘The truth will set you free’ indeed, and the search for God is nothing if not consistent with the truth.
Those of you who are still ‘devotees’ of these two men — many have spent long hours and efforts reaching out to you. They are your own brothers and sisters.
Do not doubt or dishonour them. Whether you know it or not, you owe them a great deal.
May you too be free and come into the light of truth.
Love … always.
Insider, Pranam and thankyou! lol
bdjkpvictimsadvocates,
Pranam to you too (smile)!
Himani:
“QUOTE”
NK- I hope you get the light to see that there is good out there for you inspite of what happened to you in past but please do not put all in the same category and know that you will find whatever it is and when it is time for you and my best to you.
“UNQUOTE”
Thanks for kind words for me and I do realize that there is good out there for me.
However, please be assured I did get the light (rather bright) many times and saw very clearly. And I learned not to follow anyone BLINDLY (no matter how respected, reputed, reliable, holy, etc. he/she may be). NOTE: The key word is BLINDLY.
I am not skeptical about everything BUT I am careful about everything.
I think I have said enough on this blog and I would only be repeating myself now which is counter-productive. I would rather watch the progress until I can contribute positively.
Janisha & Others:
Good Luck with your case.
My sympathies and prayers for the REAL VICTIMS of any situation.
When all the noise of the recent news and trial quietens down you followers of Barsana Dham/JKP may finally see you are living your life as a lie, especially those of you who know of and have experienced your “spiritual” truth of the guru, but then willingly get involved with any kind of coverup, denial and shunning. I am acutely aware that many of the boys and men do not know what most of the women and the female children know what I know. But some of the other men do know too.
Eventually, living the lie and denying the legal truth will eat away at the very core of your soul. Unless you can get out of the denial mode, living the lies will wear you down and ruin you and your life like a cancer. At least I am set free, I can live with myself and live in the truth. Living the lie will rot you inside, and is no doubt taking you further away from the peace you seek. The truth will prevail as it is synonymous with God.
Insider, please DO stay longer. We need more voices like yours.
You are SO right that the truth will set you free. Beautifully stated!
Anyone who is suffering inside JKP — please know that it feels free outside of the oppression, depression, and corruption. The world is not hell: it is hell inside of there.
Yes, I agree: the tide has turned for them — finally.
bdjkpvictimsadvocates -
Your ongoing tireless effort to inform people about the truth of JKP and its many victims, who’ve suffered many styles of abuse, appreciate your dedication and effort. It is so heartening to have so many who are ready, willing, and able to come forward with the pain, suffering — and recovery from JKPs very seriously flawed and likely corrupt leadership. There is strength in truth, power in freedom, and energy living in a world that is not run by a few maniacal power-mongers and two gurus who live is some altered universe that apparently doesn’t include the laws of the land. Let us stay together working on this cause and expand it into many forms with the goal of reaching those people who were formerly like us — suffering and trapped.
It was a shame that Barsana Dham did not turn out to be what we all wanted, but that doesn’t mean we have to let its sins keep us separated any longer. Sisters.
Well, it’s sad but true that JKP has gotten the Statesman to delete all of the comments related to the recent story published just two days ago. That place does not appreciate freedom of speech and clearly they have the money to bring in their big guns, big bucks lawyers and PR firm to make things that don’t suit them just disappear.
What they don’t realize is that now ex-devotees and former members are just going to start our own blogs where we can let the world learn the other side of this NON-public organization.
They are used to being 100% in control of their autocratic universe and do not believe that us simple normal human beings should be allowed to speak.
I just saw that SeekingTruth has posted her deleted comment from the Statesman. I believe they deserve to be shared with everyone. JKP should not be allowed to censor freedom of speech, which is one of the tenents of the United States that they have taken full advantage of, along with freedom of religion.
SeekingTruth said:
Someone wondered who will take succession of Barsana Dham should the swami not return or be otherwise indisposed. I believe I’ve found a clue from the blog of the current Vice President (Former President), Prabhakari Devi.
Her blog states: “Prabhakari Devi helps to coordinate family camps at HER ashram.” So it’s already hers already, huh? That was fast.
I’m sure this is also good news for ALL Barsana Dham residents based on this preeminent “Didis” shining accolades including (excerpted here):
- Prabhakari Devi (Didi) is a MUCH LOVED personality in the field of spiritual philosophy.
- Her particular interest is in YOUTH OUTREACH.
- Saraswati … TUTORED her in the ways of spiritual philosophy when she was in her late teens. (Hopefully of age!)
SeekingTruth said…
You know Austinites, I’ve been thinking. To be fair to Barsana Dham, why not request of the organization the opportunity to share with us all of its gurus many great “charity works” of which so many of its dedicated members spoke of with in such glowing terms, but without any details?
Barsana Dham members, can you please arrange a public event to better educate many of us about your Swamiji’s long history of charitable work. I know that you all are experts at taking and archiving video footage, photos, articles, and accolades from upstanding members of community. May we all come out one day and view all of your archives? Perhaps a nice event in your beautiful temple with slide shows and video?
I think just to quiet the skeptics it would be best to include a lot of historical factual information, not just recent photos and video and letters from supporters. I think you can understand why this humble request is necessary. I for one look forward to seeing this discussion and visual history of his many decades of selfless charity work.
Please inform us here when we can hope to enjoy this event. Thank you in advance for considering this.
SeekingTruth said…
Hey JKP,
I just saw on one of your swami’s many blogs (how many does one swami need?) this announcement:
“Swami Prakashanand Saraswati to Host Yoga Symposium June 20-22″
… Swami Prakashanand Saraswati will host the 2008 Texas Yoga Retreat (at Barsana Dham).
So will he really be back in town so soon? Just checkin’.
Maybe he’ll give us a presentation on all of his charitable work, which you claim he has done over the entire span of his “career” as a saint/sanyasi/guru. Is he a yogi, too?
SeekingTruth said…
A Sane Voice — “Voice of America News” reports: Tom Burton, General Counsel for Houston-based Justice for Children, a non-profit group that is not involved in the case (of Prakashanand Saraswati being allowed to leave the country thanks to $10 million dollars bail), is among those questioning the judge’s decision. “It is disturbing, from a public policy perspective, that an accused child molester could simply carry around a war chest and pay his way out of trouble and that appears to be what the judge allowed to happen,” he said.
Supporters of the Indian cleric say the charges against him are spurious and that he will return so that he can be exonerated in court. But Tom Burton says if the accused is in fact a child molester the judge may have put CHILDREN IN INDIA and elsewhere at risk by letting him leave. “What assurances do we have that children all around the world are safe? Until we resolve the allegations here in Texas how do we know?,” he said.
Will any other child safety companies and advocates, such as Tom Burton from Houston, come forward and support the sexually abused women (molested as children)? There must be some local Austin organization or business — perhaps right in our own backyard — dedicated to keeping children safe from being lost, missing, and abused that will help these girls?
SeekingTruth said…
JKP,
Can you please complete your swamiji’s page on this blog?
http://www.dailymotion.com/us
I want to see his playlists, favorites, and channels.
http://www.dailymotion.com/Prakashanand-Saraswati
SeekingTruth said…
JKP,
Can you please complete your swamiji’s page on this blog?
http://www.dailymotion.com/us
I want to see his playlists, favorites, and channels.
http://www.dailymotion.com/Prakashanand-Saraswati
It’s so sad that JKP is allowed to chock the hard-won tenet of Freedom of Speech. Meanwhile JKPs own devotees believe they should be able to voice their one-sided thoughts. Many were even using their REAL names in the blog yesterday — that means they are serious.
One eldery member of the community even had the nastiest to state the following: “I find it amazing the these girls suddenly decided that they are traumatized by groping that occured so long ago. Not sexual contact, etc., just inappropriate touching.” That is a really nice attitude about young women who have been traumatized by the swarmiGG grabbing their private parts. This exposes a huge window into the warped psychology of JKP. This is particularly troubling coming from the mouth of this grandmother, since an underage member of her own family stays in the ashram on a regular basis.
SeekingTruth said…
SO JKP when is your swami planning to return to Austin. Don’t play coy. Surely he has some guesstimate on his return dates. We know he always says SOMETHING about this before he leaves
Be honest with us — why only tell us what you want us to hear?? Hmmmmm? Can you step out of your usually secretive communication style and tell us all –even though claiming to be a completely PUBLIC organization. We would be very interested to know so we can be ready with garlands and jay hos (hey I just realized that last word has two connotations)!
Janisha: I did see those Austin Statesman comments above late last night before the whole blog got taken down by today. In fact as an ex insider who knows all those people at Barsana Dham very well, I found the comments from one blogger particularly horrifying and offensive and deeply troubling coming from as you say the “elderly grandmother who has a 13 year old grandchild who vists there.” And I might add, partly lives there while Swamiji is in residence for many years. I do know this grandmother is well aware of the molestation of both gurus in BD, and no doubt by the way she thinks as proven in her comments, she thinks it is also OK for her own grandchild to be groped as it is not sexual according to her. I dont see how she could have possibly missed out. She sleeps no more than about 20 yards from the swami’s bedroom. I think this grandmother proves she is guilty by trying to bactrack out of the mess she got herself in and also how she makes vicious inflammatory remarks about the victims, while she defends the guru. This obviously guilty woman, who judged the victims as guilty of lying, should be questioned for the probability of being a facillitator and then she should be given a lie detector test. Perhaps the father of the child can see to that, as this child is very highly likely to have been exposed to inapropriate contact as a curently underage child.
This grandmother devotee named herself by her real name Lois in the AAS blog. Her comments so offended me as a victim myself, and so suspicious of her motive that I copied what she has exposed herself, and also the comments of those who called her out on it. It is re-posted here, as that AAS blog is now removed.
Lois wrote in Austin American Stateman blog 5/20/2008 2:34 PM CDT (this entire blog has been removed by the newspaper editor).
It is very disturbing to see our local paper write in such a biased way, as if they are trying to say guilty before a trial. I find it amazing the these girls suddenly decided that they are traumatized by groping that occured so long ago. Not sexual contact, etc., just inappropriate touching. If you wish to discredit someone out of your personal desire to hurt, there is no better way in America than to say that you were molested when underage. Then the witch hunt begins and reason flies out of the window. When the truth comes out the damage is already done and the perpetrators got their wish. How sad….for all of us that in our current system we are guilty before we have a chance to prove our innocence. What will become of us as a nation, and who is next?
Narron wrote in Austin American Stateman:
Lois- your blatant demeaning of the “intensity” of the girls abuse is an affront to survivors af abuse across the board. As a survivor of abuse myself, there is little difference between the “levels” of abuse and thier after effects. These girls may not have been penetrated but the distortion and fear that being used innapropriately by any athority figure has long ranging negative impacts on the victims. How heartless to say it doesn’t matter or these girls are after something just because you have decided that being “groped” isn’t a big deal.
Also I didn’t see any bias in the paper, it simply layed the facts, told us austinites about some people that are part of the organization and the outcome of the amended bond. If facts look like bias perhaps you fear the swami is more guilty than you would like to believe.
jeffreysikes wrote in Austin American Statesman
Lois: We are on the same page when you say the groping was inappropriate. Where I lose you in your flawed logic is how you disconnect inappropriate groping with sexual intent. Groping is touching with the intent to sexually arouse the abuser. Because you need it spelled out to you, that IS sexual contact. How is it ever ok for a child to experience abuse for the purpose of the Swami’s mysoginistic pleasure?
NOW LOIS WHO WAS CRITICIZED AND CALLED OUT ON HER (ITS ONLY GROPING AND NOT SEXUAL) STATEMENT BACK-TRACKS AND TRIES TO CORRECT HER BIG MESS SHE GOT HERSELF IN.
Lois wrote in Austin American Statesman:
Jeffrey, I did not mean to imply that any kind of touching is okay. Only that it is alleged and that I find it suspicious that it has come up after such a long time. I wish that people could wait and not decide on guilt or innocence because someone is making an allegation. We have all seen such things in the past, where a person’s reputation is spoiled only to find out later that there was an intent to hurt an innocent person behind it. Can’t we at least consider this possibility along with all others? Of course no one would approve groping of any girls. But no one would approve of someone being called an abuser is they are not. Ask anyone who has been through such a thing and proven innocent can tell you what kind of damage that has done to their reputation.
How Sad that a selfless spiritual leader is attacked by such an obvious setup. Also, why attack a dedicated supporter who believes in who “Swamiji” is and what he stands for. Something doesn’t feel right about this contrieved story. It is also obvious that someone wants to line their pockets with inappropriate bail money.
narron wrote:
Narron wrote: Objectivity rules: I found that the obvious willingness to call child victims liars or worse was inflamatory and so I think these accusations clearly suggest that many of this groups supports have made these children, guilty before proven innocent.
All of you supporters keep saying that swamiji is innocent until proven guilty, but not one of you has not given even an ounce of thought to the innocence of the the alleged victims. You condemn them and call them liars, these children who may or may not have suffered such crimes. Your bias and anger at mere girls is a testiment to the type of person you are.
All this above is very disturbing. We might have another child victim here currently underage. I hope the law follows up on Lois and her granddaughter. Someone should alert this childs father. I know as an ex (abused) insider that this woman like others there, are hiding ugly secrets. That’s why they go on the blogs and so vehemently and viciously spit on the victims and defend the guru so publicly. Most women there know, what many men there dont know, but (some) men do know.
Hi readers all over:
I aplogize for all of my bizaar writings on this topic under various names. I thank Lord for showing me the light and pointing me in right direction of the treatment of my Obsessive compulsive disorder. I will always be indebted to you. I am sure all those people will find it in their heart to forgive me. I should not have done what I did to take my anger out on innocent people. I have learnt from my mistakes and will not do it again. This is the begining of my recovery process.
Janisha/exjkpbdvictimsadvoate
Please help me out by not reading anything that I post here after if that is bizaar or inappropriate. I do hope that I will not relapse again under the new medications.
Thank you for understanding
bdjkpvictimsadvocates/Janisha
*******EDITOR of SABAsearch Blog*******
Does this blog have any guidelines for allowing people who are lying and saying they are someone else and posting under someone else’s exact Blog Identities? Please see comments posted at 5:25 pm and 5:28 pm.
Do you have any control mechanisms in place to handle such attacks?
Please DO NOT forge sign my screen name bdjkpvictimsadvcocates to any stupid and corrupt comments YOU make on behalf of Barsana Dham/jkp.
Such statements just show the corrupt ends you will go to cover up crimes that we are revealing due to your gross victimzing of the victims in many public places.
The name bdjkpvictimsadvocates is a screen name used only by one supporter of the indicting victims and another abused victim of Barsana Dham.
You are a liability to that organization and for the lawyers and administrators of BD/JKP. Did they ask you to do this? Do they know? I hope they see how you make their job much more difficult.
You are easily identifiable and as a result this entire blog has been forwarded to the Hays County Sheriffs, as you are a facilitator to the abuses, one of which you have just committed here.
I hope they look in to this very carefully as there are some very wierd people in this blog and they need serious help.
Hey “I am sorry” -
You know who you are and so do I.
I’m truly sorry for ALL of the people around you and under your control. You know you should really think of those people in your big huge “family” at least once in awhile — don’t just think of yourself all the time. After all, I don’t think they will appreciate you bringing up mental health issues. That’s very insensitive of you. I know it’s hard for you to think of the feelings of people in your “family,” but please try.
I would request people not to engage with Janisha/bdjkpwhatevr/etc. any longer. Clearly there’s some personal issues at play and it will just go on and on and the thread is getting so much more bizzare and ridiculous that it would actually be foolish to make any more responses. Austin Stateman realized this already this morning.
NK
In an early post I just want to let you know that you got fooled by a fake “abuse survivor.” That person is a controlling member of JKP and they were just trying to get it a dig to all of us who are leaking out their corruption secrets to the world. They’ve had decades of constructing an insular autocratic society (and “altered universe,” as they say) and they do not like people telling their experiences when they leave with broken hearts.
You were right about one thing: JKP has serious means and resources, and it also has scary means and resources. There’s no telling what they’ll do — and I am not saying this lightly. Former members of this organization have left and kept quiet for decades. Why? Out of fear, that’s why. JKP is used to dealing with scared, meek, disheartened individuals. This new type of strong independent thinker is throwing them off balance. Those of us who know are watching the drama unfold — and watching them show their true color.
Sometimes we have to decode things for others because JKP is the expert in covert coverups. I guess anyone with so much power and money for so long would get angry when that cushy life is crashing down around them. I mean, what are they going to do then? Get a job?
and janisha et al, maybe you could do yourself a favour and appear not so childish, by sorting your personality conflicts/family issue (which i have sussed out) in real life rather than engaging in a full blown cyber tantrum?
David etal
If you all don’t like it why are you still here? Is someone forcing you to do this? That sounds scary. If you don’t feel free to just walk away from the blog and do something else, maybe you should call 911.
It’s a free country (did you know that?). And honestly this place would be better without angry, bitter, complainers.
Insider - are you still THERE?
I love one of your comments: “…now Swamiji and Kripalu Maharaj are headed inexhorably down that steep cliff reserved for villains of their ilk.”
YES — and now we can just sit back and watch.
I would love to learn more about how you reached your realization.
I know you can’t say here as things are too HOT. Some day!
no Janishaetal i’m not in the same country as you. i’m in my own country 1000s of miles away where we are forced to watch blogs all day and there’s no such thing as 911. in any case i was saying it for your own good. i already pretty much guessed your identity and as a concerned citizen it just that you should know that you are making a circus out of yourself. but you do whatever you like. and i agree that this place would be better without angry, bitter crybabies so why are *you* still here? you knew, you never seemed like such tantrum-thrower, but then again, appearances can be deceiving.
RE: hey you on 22 May 2008 at 7:15 pm
You said: “I hope they look in to this very carefully as there are some very wierd people in this blog and they need serious help.”
Ditto to you too!! Yes you are right on your above statement which most appropriately applies to you. You dont need to “hope”, you can KNOW for sure the Criminal Investigators on this case from both the Hays County sheriffs and the prosecutors of the Hays District Attorneys office will be looking into the backgrounds and statements made by some of the weird people on this blog such as yourself continually changing your identity here, condoning abuse, and facilliating coverup of these crimes. If it wasnt true, why are you working so hard at it? The law will also be looking at this blog and others, and into anyone like the Lois grandmother of BD above, who obviously supports child molestation according to her immature brainwashed level of understanding made in her public comments, and cant even see that groping an underage child is an illegal sexual act. (So in that case, how can she protect her grandaughter from molestation with that attitude?)
THAT is very wierd indeed especially after the crimes to other children become public. It shows she and you, (oh “controlling” one), need serious help, but it may not be the kind of help you’d like –she as the BD grandmother of an underage child who has been around the swami multiple times for years, probably even the day he was released from jail when he went back to BD, and other places closeby around Austin where he could get access to her.
As an ex insider, I am also extremely troubled by the apparant relation between Lois, the grandaughter and JLRTX who are all acting in denial but all know the truth of what goes on there.
See above Janisha on 22 May 2008 at 9:40 am. A post which was blogged in the (now removed blog) from the Austin Statesman raised eyebrows, was saved and pasted here. It said: “SeekingTruth said…Someone calling themselves JLRTX wrote in complaining — “Many of these people have raised their children at Barsana Dahm and many of those children are now successful adults in their own right who make it a point to come visit Swamiji personally when he is here. Some of them come back and live on the property.”
Well. its not true that (girls) raised at BD come back to live at Barsana Dham anymore. I know this, I lived there. About 99% of the girls who grew up there left many years ago. Some never came back. Others that did come back to work in the holidays clearly avoided the swami’s association as much as possible, and also avoided devotions as much as possible. The boys however, did come and visit the swami, but mostly only on his first or last day of a 2-3 week stay. Sadly almost the entire 2nd generation who grew up there is missing.
RE: davidire on 22 May 2008 at 10:21 pm
You said: “I would request people not to engage with Janisha/bdjkpwhatevr/etc. any longer. Clearly there’s some personal issues at play… ”
David, what do you know about the sexual indecency done to GIRLS? Aren’t you a GUY? You’ve never even met set eyes on at least one of the indicting victims so how can you say there are personal family issues you’ve sussed out? If there are any family issues you can bet its because the molestations of these girls must surely have become a family issue, and that is very sad that it negatively impacts so many other people as well.
We’ve certainly seen some bizarre trick tactics and strange beliefs of followers too –(like groping underage girls is not sexual?) Not only bizarre as you say, but most revealing of their true colors, control and coverup cultish motives too.
Of course you will be pleading to anyone from BD not to engage us anymore because its too shameful to see what might get exposed next! Let them keep it coming, its getting very interesting. The more they attack these victims and victim’s advocates, the more we can suss them out too, and what they reveal in the process has actually become very helpful.
bdjkpvictimsadvocates,
You can say whatever you want but the truth is that i am speaking as an outsider who lives 1000s of miles away but who has spent along time at barsana dham (6 months a year). i dont know anything about who’s making accusations because that’s for your countrie’s justice system to decide. what motivation would i have of defending bd? you can keep yelling that everyone who respnds to you here is a member of a pr team, but you’re lost for words when i take my turn. you’ve never stayed in the ashram or attended any services there in decades and have you have no experience with day to day life there… but me, i do and is why i try go there as much as possible.
as an independant outsider, i am qualified to say who’s lying or not. i dont get on particularly well with my family myself and don’t live with them… http://www.alispagnola.com/leprechaun7.jpg but that doesnt mean i have to get into a temper tantrum over it?
only reason i feel i should speak up is because i know that you also think the allegations against swamiji are false, and i have no intention of letting some crybaby shrimp make stuff up just cause she’s not getting enough attention…
davidire
You said - “as an independant outsider, i am qualified to say who’s lying or not”
And at the same time you said: “(you) who has spent along time at barsana dham (6 months a year).
My First Question to you:
How can you claim being an independant outsider when clearly you lived at BD and are a devotee of Swamiji ???
My second question to you:
Even some one is an outsider, does it automatically qualify him/her to say who’s lying or not ???
I have neither gone to BD (except once as a visitor for one hour, years ago), nor I have met any of your Swamiji ever, so I can very well claim to be a true outsider.
Still I don’t claim to be qualified to pass judgement on anyone.
I have always said:
Anything can happen and there are countless proven cases, in Hindus and others, where Gurus/Priests have misbehaved.
As per details, the U.S. authorities have acted very seriously in this case. So keep your mind open and don’t follow BLINDLY.
Until the verdict comes out, the defendant is not assumed to be guilty AND at the same time you can not say that these are all lies and it is a frevelous lawsuit.
(BLINDLY following religious leaders causes fanatism)
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Thank you.
TO: EDITOR
This was a very good idea to avoid any controversy about multiple Screen names.
Let’s see who remain on this blog.
Goodmorning NK and editor: I am right behind you NK and agree with you as usual.
I am not concerned about who remains on the blog because people can come up with e-mail ids and log in. Offcource we were faster because we did not have to think about it twice.
I still do not want to engage on this forum but just wanted to have my legitimacy know. I also want you to know that my name himani (they used himanii-with two i ’s ) has been used by some people in other places with wrong/not my thought posts about this alleged abuse case and this time I want to make sure I get my info. in before some one can mess it up.
Have a nice weekend.
David: You said ” You have no loss of words when I take my turn. Well, not correct. I have plenty to say to you. Its absolutely clear you are talking through a hole in the back of your head, not making any sense. I can even prove your own erroneous contradictions which make an circus ape out of yourself. You have trapped yourself real good here.
You are most definately putting the wrong person to this screen name in an attempt to malign–something which I am most familiar with for years in this organization.
Here’s my proof: You said to me, “You’ve never stayed in the ashram or attended any services there in decades and have you have no experience with day to day life there.”
Oh really, I’m about to prove you in a lie, like many of the others who support BD’s sex crimes. First, I had lived at the ashram for 16 years continously.
If I had not stayed there as you say, then how come I know so much about you? You are David from Ireland. You first came to BD with your tall father. You have light reddish hair. You once asked the Swamiji at his meal time about going to St Edwards College in Austin to do a computer degree and you spoke to someone at BD who has children who go to that college. Some of your services are in the computer room, hanging decorations, garden, kitchen, dishroom, and sometimes you feel pulled in too many directions. You have danced Irish dances (with both men and women) for both Swamiji and Maharaji. Is that enough or do you want me to keep going?
So that brings me to your next contradiction” You are also not an “outsider” as you say. Didnt you say yourself you go to stay at BD for 6 months of a year, so that makes you a half time live-in devotee and I’ve seen you everyday you are there.
You asked: “What motivation would I have of defending bd?” Well now, how come you dont know the answer to that yourself? That’s easy to see: You are a devotee who partly lives there at BD. Your guru is in trouble for molesting underage girls and you deny it, yelling to the world in the blogs like the rest, and BD is your spiritual home isnt it? And shameful indecent acts have been committed on the girls who grew up there, one of whom I know you have never met, so how can you talk about temper tantrums? You wouldnt have a clue about the family/personal dynamics as you make out, because you have no clue who the family is, and you are attacking the wrong person, with the wrong information like the rest do on the BD PR makeover campaign (because you are all desperate and clutching at straws). Be sure you pick the right straw or be a loser.
And remember, there is no way you as a GUY can say these allegations are false. Are you too in the swami’s bedroom 24/7 behind closed door as a GIRL? Do you think he is going to do it in front of you? And if he doesnt, then it doesnt happen? You all act like someone has just kicked off the top of a huge ant mound and all the ant wokers are exposed, panicked and running around everywhere with no place to hide, trying to protect their queen (SJ) from himself, and you are fast running out of sustenance and only reort to spitting trash on the victims and their (abused) victims advocates.
Well, where do i begin? Once again you’ve lived up to your reputation of having a wind tunnel between your ears. Firstly, the details you gave of me aren’t fully correct but i would expect no less from you. Secondly I can’t prove what i’m saying here so I will leave it to those who can and they will prove that you have a vendetta. Thirdly, I do know who you are, and I do know you have no experience with day to day life there and have never lived in the ashram or ever attended services there so don’t try to play coy with me.
BDjkpvictimsadvocates —
You had to call out another person from JKP who is attacking the victims — and you did a good job of it.
What’s so sad to me is that the people in Barsana Dham themselves put you in this position by supporting either (A) a person whom they know has most definitely molested unwilling underage girls as well as has done inappropriate things with women (alas this is called “consensual”), or (B) a person whom they have no clue whatsoever what he does behind closed doors.
The people in group A include most of the woman in that organization who are close to the guru. The people in group B include most of the men in that organization. Many men have learned of this secret activity, but most have chosen to be in denial and decide either (1) it doesn’t really happen or (2) it’s all God’s divine leela on this earth. Why have they taken one of these beliefs? Imagine how embarrassing it would be to realize that your own wife was groped and worse by this person they call “guru.”
What scares me is the lengths that JKP will go to to keep the public from learning the truth about its guru. Here are just some of their tactics that I have observed so far:
1. Bashing the victims in multiple heartless ways
2. Abusing the people supporting the victims in all manner of nasty accusations.
3. Puffing up the egos of innocent devotees and encouraging them to become vocal spokespeople for the organization and putting all of the ideas into their heads of what to say (for example David, who we know learned all those nasty comments from a very high-up person in JKP).
4. Calling out to all of the Hindus in Austin and Texas and the U.S., telling them that there is a massive smear campaign against not just their guru, but also against all Hindus.
Please citizens of Austin, Texas, the United States, and the world, please at least realize the possibility that the two victims’ allegations could be true. It’s horrible to consider — believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all. I desperately wanted Barsana Dham to be the spiritual sanctuary it promotes itself to be. But when you are faced with the truth and overwhelming facts and your own experiences (you would have to have gotten very close to the guru to understand what I’m saying here), at that point, you have to say: “I can no longer delude myself. I can no longer support illegal behavior. I can no longer support a place that claims to be a pure spiritual path, but is sadly far far far from that.”
I know that I have taken a few jabs at JKP. It was out of extreme frustration over years of being told to “Keep your mouth shut.” Finally, I have realized I still have my own mind and my own voice.
Please look and listen with your heart, mind, and soul wide open. This is not a smear campaign of anyone! There is so much more not even being said yet. I could easily go away and never be heard of again. JKP would love: It’s what they count on. But I decided this: “No I will not just walk away and save myself, because I wish with all my heart that someone had reached out and told me the truth many, many years ago.”
Thank you for reading this and staying open to all possibilities in this very sad and very horrible situation.
Janisha,
You sound very insincere to me. Only truth to your statement was that I did “good job” calling your bluff. OK, on one side you are saying that BD are trying to hide the truth, and on the other side you say that they asked me to look at this board. I’m sure I, as a foriegner, would be that last person they would want to find out about this because i may never go back. They would have done the work themselves.
Also, I know many girls from my country who have stayed there spend long time there like me. I know some of them very very well. He has also stayed in my country. Stayed in my friends house, even as kids.
Do you think they would love Swamiji so much, even to this day, after having been groped. If they had been groped, according to your logic, maybe they have been proud that they had been part of a leela of a divine Saint and boasted about it? Why would they hide the truth? Also, I and all devotees can enter Swamiji’s room at will and he is never completely alone. Wouldn’t i have seen him retract his hand very quickly at least one?? No, i didnt see anything like this. I know Swamiji and i trust him as do all devotees.
My own mother has spent time with him, and she also loves him very much. Who will i believe, her (and the experiences of all devotees i know including myself) or you, someone i have only ever seen in distance (who has the appearance of someone who managed to get a job there rather than a devotee) and who sounds very angry and insincere.
No, you’re elk were saying the same thing about Maharajji last year. You’re elk said very cruel and foul things about him and it turned out the accuser was payed to make the allegation. I didnt believe it then, and i will not believe it now.
No, as i said before, i have no intention of letting a brat like you get away with this just because she’s not getting enough attention. No i will call your bluff everytime. And who will ppl believe, me or you?
davidire read this from the last rent and rave session::
****Quote****I
t’s horrible to consider — believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all.
****unquote**
She started believing it when the voices in her head told her to…
“believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all.”
Ya i was thinking the same thing. Why did she believe it if she didn’t want to believe it?
To all sincere people who were once seeking spirituality at JKP-Barsana Dham, but who got horribly hurt by the reality, this message is only for you.
I believe this blog will close soon, because it is now only becoming a place where the attacks by JKP are unending. Victims and people who believe this organization is not what it says cannot have a safe voice here. And we need one.
I want to reach out to all the victims and to the people who want to share their thoughts and tell you about a safe place where we can continue talking to each other and reveal truths about JKP or our opinions and help each other learn more. This will help so many victims to not feel alone and to heal from the years of abuse.
In this safe place, our voices will not be drowned out in the noise of abusive language and closed minds. I would suggest we all leave this site and let the abusive people talk to themselves from here on out.
Please visit my new blog now and in the future. It will be a place that will be monitored to keep out the abuse of JKP. I just opened this blog today. In the future weeks and months ahead more information will be added. Know that we need to come together and have strength in numbers to stand up to this well-orchestrated organization and their ongoing abuses. They clearly care nothing for the people they are hurting and, in fact, are only focused on causing more hurt.
So much could have been avoided if they had treated their own family members and devotee family with the love and consideration that people think they offer.
Here is where you’ll find our own place online to share:
http://mylifeinacult.wordpress.com/
So i re-iterate my previously my previous statement: “but you’re lost for words when i take my turn.” QED
You tried to hoodwink me but i called your bluff using honest logic. Your new blog is just more evidence of that vindictiveness that i’ve come to expect from you. I wouldn’t have expected any less actually…
David, You are to be pitied. As Janisha said, your are a typical case of the brainwashed blind follower who has been spoon fed like everyone else in this cult, specific information (from the top) about a particular BD abused child victim. THAT in itself is a crime. I wonder what this victim and others like her will do to get justice after the court proves WHO the original culprits are for spreading such malicious vindictive damaging rumors about them in an effort to conceal crimes such a indecent acts against underage girls. AS part of the coverup campaign BD/JKP’s goal now upping their twist off slander and defammation on this and other victims hoping gullible people will believe them, so they can keep their money, women and girls rolling in, and prevent their followers from fleeing the flock.
So, you believe your own mother? I know wives who have never told their husbands–even those who live right in BD! Not only that, they outright lie to their own husbands. Don’t be so stupid–Your mother is not going to tell you her (leela). I’ve known the victim you are talking about for over 17 years, and I also know the shocking source of where that cruel rumor and gossip got started from. As Janisha said many things haven’t come out (yet). The trial will reveal all the missing links and you will all be made to eat your own words instead of eating your own young. I hope those originating this rumor are put on the witness stand as they most definately are guilty of concealment of illegal acts against children. Instead of blaming the child victim, they should have reported to the Hays County Sheriffs.
Further, as someone (a female) who has lived full time 16 years at BD and you (a guy) only live there part time just in the last 2 or 3 years or so, I KNOW that NO ONE ever gets free access to the swami’s bedroom–that is a total lie. Mostly only the preachers control who goes in, and there are even times when even they dont get in either.
I have not been spoonfed any information and i know nothing about the case in question because it has nothing to do with me. Who would tell me? I’m not talking about this case, i am talking about *you*. In your comments throughout the internet you have made it obvious to a smart person like me, who you are. Being obvious to me that you are ill-motivated, i wanted to catch you out and make you speechless. And i think i have done that.
I myself am a victim too, i was treated very cruelly since i was 4 to 8 years old which will no doubt scar me for life. I have every sympathy for any victim who has been abused outright or even in a subtle way. However, it has become an easy way to defame someone that such allegations need to be looked at objectively. You are not objective, you said: “believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all.” so the question remains, why did you believe it when it hasn’t even been proven in court?
Dear Readers of this Blog,
As I mentioned above I have stared a new Blog to give people chance to speak freely without the threat of abuse. I do not want any abuse of any kind on this new blog — dedicated to freedom of though and speech, as well as kindness to our fellow human beings.
To promote my message I will be combining two of my blog identities. I needed more than one on different blogs, because of ongoing abuse by JKP-Barsana Dham.
I will no longer use the name Janisha here, which means Dispeller of Ignorance, although it is a great name and speaks to my new mission in life.
However, I feel another blog identity name is even more powerful. I will now only use the name Freedom Writer. This name reflects the God-given right of everyone in America to Freedom of Speech.
Again, please feel free to regularly check the information provided at my new blog and post comments if you want to share your own thoughts. I will not let anyone abuse us and I will not let JKP-Barsana Dham promote its messages. Lord knows, they have enough outlets and more than enough spokespeople.
Jai Shree Radhey. Jai Shree Krishn. Thank you for setting me free and giving me my voice back.
http://mylifeinacult.wordpress.com/
David, You said: You said to Janisha, “you are not objective, you said: ‘believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all.’” so the question remains, why did you believe it when it hasn’t even been proven in court?
Janisha like me, believed it after she experienced it living at BD.
You are so far off base with your illiogical imaginations yet, you call yourself smart. First, you like all the rest of the BD stonethrowers, you are SO completely WRONG in who you think you are all talking to. Like I said before, better pick the right straw or you lose. You said you know nothing about the case, yet you say you’ve been all over the Internet with a malicious intent to dredge up mud on someone you are erroneously guessing is in these blogs. IF you are so smart then, why dont you contact the editor of this blog and see if your “guess” matches any of these names in this SABA BLOG. I can tell you 100% you will fail just like all the other accusations by BD followers have failed. Its a constant repetitive cultish behavior. You are all poured out of the same twisted mold.
If you are a victim as you say, then why are you victimizing another victim who is not even here to defend themselves? You’ve been talking to two victims advocates who are trying to defend these victims. All I can say is remember your lessons of cause and effect. What harm you are “causing” another victim, you will be (bound) to suffer the “effects”. That will be up to how God deals with that. So I am no longer communicating with you. It’s in God’s hands. Keep on harming victims and keep on suffering yourself then.
Hey, good luck, and i mean it. I was just being tongue and cheek about you having a windtunnel between your ears so dont be devistated by that. I dont know you personally so i dont know if you’re an airhead or not. I know how shy i seem in real life, but there’s times when i need to speak out and expose people who i know are being dishonest and who act out just because of attention-seeking issues or a family issue. Hopefully when the case is over and you grow up a bit you’ll stop this childishness. I dont know why i care so much, other than as a matter of principle, about what someone says on a blog, after all i guess that most devotees dont even know or care about one’s immature games, despite you giving the impression that there is a huge pr coverup.
“why are you victimizing another victim who is not even here to defend themselves?”
Actually i’m not victimizing anyone except you. I have said that i know nothing about the case and could care less about it because it is nothing to do with me. What i do care about is what comments you have been saying on blogs etc. which mostly got deleted i think.
And i know perfectly well who you are, but i dont know who is making accusations in court, unless you are the one making the allegations. If you are that person, then you are making yourself look bad by doing this. But i dont think you are, i think you are just a person who is using the allegations to facilitate your grudge, whatever is the reason for it.
“Janisha like me, believed it after she experienced it living at BD.”
If you experienced it at BD, you would have had no problem believing it. But you said you had *difficulty* the allegations. When i was mistreated years ago, i had no problem believing it.
Look, i understand that victims can mix their words up sometimes, and that people can twist it to make them look bad, but your statement above is a clear slipup on your part and shows up your dishonesty.
Let’s do a survey for JKPBD:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
[x] The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
[x] Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
[x] Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
[x] The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
[x] The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
[x] The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
[x] The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
[x] The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
[x] The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
[x] Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
[x] The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
[x] The group is preoccupied with making money.
[x] Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
[x] Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
[x] The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
HMMMMMMMM…
Thankyou and pranan to whomever posted the above cult list
As a female follower of Swami Prakashanand Saraswati for over 2 decades of which 16 years were lived full time at Barsana Dham I would testify on a witness stand under oath that bd JKP (globally) fits 99% of these CHARACTERISTICS OF A CULT. Once you wake up and snap out of the brainwashing and can look back, you realize it has not become a cult just recently since the leader got arrested for illegal sexual indecency against children, it has always been a cult from the beginning. It was indeed the cult aspect of this mission which got me caught up in the first place and then kept me trapped ever since. But not anymore! It is so great to feel free, away from their control, and I have not a single regret. It is liberating to find the world is not all hell. Now I realize I lived in more hell inside Barsana Dham. I am MUCH happier outisde where I still keep my devotions to Radha and Krishn without the middle man. And as you have seen in the two SABA blogs after a devotee leaves, the cult still tries to punish and abuse them with much malice and vengeance. That’s also a characteristic of the cult. But now I am FREEEEE from that place forever!
its not barsana dham that you need to be free from but it is your mind. The gates are always open for people to go in and out and they probably do not have even have the clue to this being said about them. There is two people writing nonstop jibberish (good writing skills though) and two people trying to answer and point to the reality. That is the only thing I see here.
Well i had written a longer reply with mostly swear words but it would only make me look bad.
I actually thought you were someone else so i’m sorry. In fact i know you as a very mean lady with no confidence and not just a childish prankster which is what i previously thought. And i have spoken to you once or twice.
And as proof who you are, i know that you did an incredibly ridiculous “dance” (maybe it was during the circus act) with another lady one time, and i think you have blondish hair.
I’m am really sorry that you choose to lash out at others because of that and feel sorry for yourself actually and feel sorry for myself for waisting a second on your nonsence. It’s really unfortunate that you are choosing to wallow in self-pity and feel the need to make up stuff for no reason.
You and janesha are the same person and you are the same person as “truth seeker” and if you dont realize that then you have a split personality…
But as you said: “It’s horrible to consider — believe me, I know. I did not want to believe it at all.”
Why did you choose to believe it when the allegations haven’t been proven?
And again, i’m not attacking any alleged victims who aren’t here to defend themselves, i am attacking you who is a complete moron.
Swamiji and his mission have a shining reputation and a mean hearted lady who has an obsessive compulsion for engaging in a cruel smear campaign will never change that.
I’m finished with you and your nonsence and that’s for sure.
Be sure that i will also be handing over your id to austin police and they can do what they want with you.
And for the record, these are entirely my own opinions and have nothing to do with BD or anything.
To reply to your message above:
It’s true that living in an ashram (basically a monestary) requires austere living, getting up early, no drugs… etc. and obviously that’s not what you u wanted. so why did you decide to live there all that time then (for 16 years as you claim). Only a few dozen people live there full time and most live in austin or in other cities and work or get married or whatever. Some are married and some not. Me i stay there because i want to try and live an austere life. I sincerly doubt you were forced to stay there against your will.
Bye.
Hey Himani, i mean it this time, just ignore this attention seeker from now on. She claims she’s was trapped there for 16 years?
I think she’s getting mixed up with the Josef Fritzel case in europe.
Martyr Complex:
http://www.thoughtclusters.com/2007/06/martyr-complex.html
[x] They have the need to be a victim and complain always and relentlessly.
[x] They take little initiative in trying to fixing any complaint.
[x] If any problem is solved, but in a different way than what they proposed, the problem still exists, as far as they are concerned.
[x] If any problem is solved according to their solution, they will find another problem to complain about.
[x] If any problem is solved, it is because they complained about it.
[x] They complain about problems that do not concern them in the least.
[x] They do not appreciate any good things being done.
[x] They lie and twist facts to prove their point.
[x] They selectively forget, ignore or avoid any facts that may conflict with their point.
[x]]They resort to name-calling when everything else fails.
There’s an uncainy resimblance to bdjkpvictimsadvocates’s stoary and the laedy in the video (mistaken identity?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dusyDw_NUOo
Davidire,
Re: your youtube link
If you think the old man’s grabbing the maid from the back is OK on his part and maid misunderstood it, then let me tell you - the standards and limits are different in western culture and Hindu culture. First you should have shown this video to some Hindus before posting it here. I hope even Himani will agree with me.